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Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by RTM08 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:04 pm

OldhamRover wrote:I'm not trying to convert everyone to being vegetarian. I've said before, I don't have a problem with people eating meat because it was a health choice for me, but it does make the moral ambiguities of modern food supply more apparent. I'm just curious as to why people draw the line where they do.

There is no evidence that electrical stunning prevents the animal from feeling pain, at best it keeps them still to be slaughtered. Stick your fingers in the mains and let me know if it hurts, that should give you an idea how effective electricity is as an anaesthetic. The belief that a stunning gun would preclude suffering comes from the strange thought that nervous sensation and motor ability are the same thing, but just because they can't move doesn't mean they can't feel. Even if stun guns do have the intended effect, 6% of the time they don't work.

The part that I really struggle with is that if I were to go into a field and kill an animal in the same way they are dealt with in an abattoir there would be public outrage, and it would be an issue of animal cruelty, not property. But if it's done behind closed doors then everyone is fine with it.

Thats because 90% of the public are ignorant to such things, as well as the majority of that other 10% have turned vegetarian due to it. Personally I couldn't turn vegetarian (I love meat too much and don't really like too many vegetables) but everyone is entitled to their opinion. But in all honesty is there really a "humane" way of killing something without infecting the meat produced?

Plus, all this "humane killing" stuff is bollocks. In the wild now (with predators), and when our ancestors needed food, they went and got it, or farmed it. I don't see how this is much different, except about how it is on a much larger scale, and takes less effort.

As for the monkey thing, I read an article that they now put the monkeys to sleep (after getting them pissed) and then bind them in a way that they can't reawaken. Still not the best form of eating but an improvement nontheless.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by OldhamRover on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:15 pm

The quickest way to kill would probably be a bullet through the head, and since most people are queasy about eating head meat anyway it wouldn't be a big deal, but it isn't legal in the UK.

I'm not disputing that the food chain is brutal when left to natural order, it's the pretence that we're doing something civilised that makes me laugh. If you hadn't been brought up on this system then breeding animals to kill and eat without giving them the chance of living in the wild would seem horrific.

If you're going to accept that certain unpalatable acts are necessary for the continuation of the race (which is completely inaccurate), then you can pretty much justify anything.

In the wild, most of the European and North American population wouldn't survive (especially if wild is also taken to mean without guns), and humans would find themselves inthe middle of the food chain rather than at the top of it.

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by RTM08 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:25 pm

OldhamRover wrote:The quickest way to kill would probably be a bullet through the head, and since most people are queasy about eating head meat anyway it wouldn't be a big deal, but it isn't legal in the UK.

Of course that would be the easiest, most painless way, but there are some imbeciles who think that is more painful than being "stunned".

OldhamRover wrote:In the wild, most of the European and North American population wouldn't survive (especially if wild is also taken to mean without guns), and humans would find themselves inthe middle of the food chain rather than at the top of it.

Of course we'd be in the middle of the food chain, but only because we're not used to the "wild". Say, if we were still living in tribes and things in the wild we would still have the skills to survive in the wild. It is only due to the cotton wool lifestyle that we are all used to that we wouldn't survive.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by OldhamRover on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:42 pm

Humans aren't designed to be top of the food chain anyway. If it wasn't for modern weaponry there would be plenty of animals (albeit not in Britain) that would happily use us as a meal.

Opposable thumbs may be useful for technological advancement, but our hands and teeth pitted against those of most wild animals of a comparable size mean we would be running and hiding rather than fighting for food.

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by Willy on Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:53 pm

If we're not designed to be top of the food chain then why were we 'given' brains complex enough to create the modern weaponry you speak of? Until a lion has the ability to design its own body armour and Desert Lion 9mm, I think we're safe. At the end of the day, we have the ability to think beyond our own bodies when it comes to defence and attack. And weapons aside, we have the ability to train other animals to be our workers. I'd be quite happy to take on a couple of lions without a gun or spear, as long as I had a pack of extremely ferocious, well-trained Pit Bulls.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by RTM08 on Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:11 pm

Willy wrote:If we're not designed to be top of the food chain then why were we 'given' brains complex enough to create the modern weaponry you speak of? Until a lion has the ability to design its own body armour and Desert Lion 9mm, I think we're safe.

Shocked

http://www.deviantart.com/download/75282875/Lion_Armor___Complete_by_Azmal.jpg
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by OldhamRover on Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:18 pm

Very few people were born with the brains to design and manufacture the gun and ammunition that would be capable of taking down a lion. Most people wouldn't even be able to use such a firearm without injuring themselves unless they were instructed in its operation.

With spears there will be some instances where people will overcome a lion, but I wouldn't want to take my chances.

Also, if humans are so clever then how is we are able to create enough weapons to wipe out every living creature a few times over, but we can't find a sustainable way to feed our own race?

We think we're intelligent, but invariably our revolutionary ideas end up creating a rod for our own backs.

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by arover on Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:16 am

Leaving Langkawi tonight and taking a ferry then overnight bus to place called Melaka. The plan is to stay there for a couple of nights and then off to Singapore by Friday.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by arover on Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:53 am

Buses in Malaysia are ace, the overnight experience was excellent, good kip, dead comfy and on time. We're now in Singapore staying with our good friends who needless to say we got bladdered with on our first night last night.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by Willy on Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:33 am

Bladderings, good munch, and long road trips. Super stuff. cheers


I cuddled up to Miss Jamaica four hours ago. I still have a hardon now.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by arover on Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:39 am

Willy wrote:Bladderings, good munch, and long road trips. Super stuff. cheers


I cuddled up to Miss Jamaica four hours ago. I still have a hardon now.

I did see summat on Facebook.

We had a bit of a nobble last night first of all going to the New Asia bar which is on the 71st floor of a skyscraper with superb views across the night time Singapore skyline then on to the Long Bar at the Raffles hotel where we paid nearly 30 quid for a jug of ale. Then on to a 50th birthday party where the ale flowed for free. Needless to say we were arseholed, great night, good friends.

I like it here but won't be supping in Raffles every night.

cyclops
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by Willy on Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:17 am

Good night, yet you spent 30 quid on a four or five pint jug...wow, you full o' cash! Wink


Nah, it's not too bad when you spend the money for a 'good cause', like a birthday. I just got back from a pre-party at a club in New Kingston (posh part of the city), and I'm extremely drunk, which is why I'm typing like a mong with one hand, and taking ten minutes to type this post (carefully).

Worst thing about Kingston; the amount of United, Chelsea, and Arsenal 'fans'. They act like it means the world to them, yet if Arsenal went on a bad run they'd 'support' Chelsea. Pisses me off big time.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by Roverdamus on Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:26 am

Willy wrote:Worst thing about Kingston; the amount of United, Chelsea, and Arsenal 'fans'. They act like it means the world to them, yet if Arsenal went on a bad run they'd 'support' Chelsea. Pisses me off big time.

Is that really that much different to here?
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by Willy on Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:19 pm

No, not at all, but at least the 'fans' in England are English. You'd think this lot would have a bit of loyalty to their local side, but they don't even have loyalty to the national side.

"We hate the Reggae Boyz" is the message from most. Pretty much because they're shit and never do well in a competition, but ain't that the same for most small countries? When the World Cup was on here, they all 'supported' Brazil, Spain, Argentina, and England. Pretty weird if you consider Spain and England were the fuckers who took these islands away from the tribes and sold slaves for next to nothing.

Loyalty here is measured in a few (Jamaican) dollars, not much different from 200+ years ago. No wonder the English found it so easy to enslave them. :/
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by glosterrover on Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:17 pm

Controversial Willam,Controversial Wink
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by Willy on Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:47 am

Nobody I've spoken with about it disagrees, because it's true. Nobody hates black people more than other black people. There's so little unity it's unreal.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by arover on Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 am

Willy wrote:Nobody I've spoken with about it disagrees, because it's true. Nobody hates black people more than other black people. There's so little unity it's unreal.

Maybe the Koreans in L.A.?
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by glosterrover on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:47 pm

Or rob cheers .....joke
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by rob_of_the_robots on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:52 am

Pah

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by arover on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:42 am

I've been to the Changi prison museum today. It was the main place in Singapore where the Japanese held prisoners of war during the second world war. It's quite an emotional place also extremely interesting. Those honourable sons of Nippon knew a thing or two about cruelty.

It also made me reflect upon how fortunate my generation have been to avoid both conscription and war amongst so many other things.

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by glosterrover on Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:44 pm

And by fate of retirement and relocation David "bloody" Cameron and his bunch of idiots cheers
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by arover on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:06 am

Leaving tonight for the long haul back to Turkey.

What a great trip. We had a superb farewell curry with our friends last night and I even twatted him at tennis on his own Wii machine.
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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by StLedge on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:03 am

Not 'with' his own Wii machine?

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by rob_of_the_robots on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:02 am

That surely makes you about number 20 in the British tennis rankings arover?

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Re: Greetings From Kuala Lumpur

Post by RTM08 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:09 am

rob_of_the_robots wrote:That surely makes you about number 2 in the British tennis rankings arover?

Fix'd
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